this is something that has been bothering me for weeks and i decided to call in the experts.
i don't know if we'll be able to get a solid answer, but maybe speculation? or maybe there is a perfectly good reason and i'm just not aware. also, i don't remember this ever being discussed (and really, why WOULD it be?
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this is going to be hard to explain, but here goes:
mick. drum pattern. tusk.
on the studio version, even though it's significantly slower, the beats are reversed. it's a 2 + 4. but then when you listen to the dance version, or really any live version, it's the string of 4 beats (maybe even 5?) and then the 2 extra beats at the end.
why does he do this? is it easier to play? i'm assuming this is the reason, because the 2 + 4 seems like it would be harder. has anyone else noticed this? care? know why he does it?
please help!!
Well, on the studio version the drums are looped. From what I recall Lindsey and Richard Dashut took a tiny bit of Mick's playing and physically cut it together. So I assume the way he plays it live is easier, since the studio version in its completed form was never actually played live, even to record.
On a side note I've never thought that Tusk worked all that well live, it always sounds lacking to me. The Dance version is probably one of the better versions but on the whole I wouldn't miss it if they dropped it.
If memory serves, the Tusk drum track came out of something like 20 seconds of Mick's messing around with a tribal beat. Problem was when push came to shove in the studio, he couldn't recreate the exact feel of what Lindsey was looking for. So happens that there was a 20-second length of tape of the beat, and it was enough to make a continuous loop to flesh out the track for the song. The reason it sounds different live is evidently because Mick still can't quite figure out what he did way back in 1978!
Anyway, that's how the basic story goes. And I believe Lindsey has even said the track is played backward, but I am not entirely sure. Some doctoring of the track, aside from looping, is bound to have happened. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.
If memory serves, the Tusk drum track came out of something like 20 seconds of Mick's messing around with a tribal beat. Problem was when push came to shove in the studio, he couldn't recreate the exact feel of what Lindsey was looking for. So happens that there was a 20-second length of tape of the beat, and it was enough to make a continuous loop to flesh out the track for the song. The reason it sounds different live is evidently because Mick still can't quite figure out what he did way back in 1978!
Anyway, that's how the basic story goes. And I believe Lindsey has even said the track is played backward, but I am not entirely sure. Some doctoring of the track, aside from looping, is bound to have happened. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.
I can't recall that story for "Tusk". It does resemble the story I know for "Trouble". That Mick came in for the drumtrack, played all day long and in the end, Lindsey and Richard solely used a fragment and looped it.
Maybe they learned that procedure during the recording of "Tusk", and repeated it for "Trouble".
Someone will correct me if I am wrong.
I remember reading that Trouble story somewhere as well. I seem to remember reading that in the end they either only used one bar (four beats) and looped it, or they used 10 seconds and looped that. If I had to guess I'd go for the 10 seconds because that's slightly less extreme.
As for why Tusk is played differently live... I don't think it's because of difficulty since they are the same drum beat but one is shifted forward by a couple of beats so that the 2 hits are not in the same place. I don't think there is any real difference in difficulty to play either, certainly not for a drummer as experienced as Mick. If I had to guess I'd say that he plays it that way because that's what vibe he gets from it.
I'm pretty sure the loop on Trouble is just one bar. The stories are similar, indeed. With Tusk, I think Mick would fool around with that beat on stage when they were rehearsing but then couldn't recreate it. It seems unlikely that a drummer like Mick would have trouble recreating a beat, but when it comes to art, sometimes you have that flash and you just can't get it back. That would be my guess.
I remember reading that Trouble story somewhere as well.
Lindsey discusses the Trouble tape looping of the drum track on the 1981 Innerview with Jim Ladd.
As for why Tusk is played differently live... I don't think it's because of difficulty since they are the same drum beat but one is shifted forward by a couple of beats so that the 2 hits are not in the same place. I don't think there is any real difference in difficulty to play either, certainly not for a drummer as experienced as Mick. If I had to guess I'd say that he plays it that way because that's what vibe he gets from it.
I agree. The band appears to have started doing the song live that way later in 1979, as the tempo was creeping faster throughout several months of touring. There's something about putting the four sixteenths first & the two eighths last in the pattern if you're increasing the tempo from night to night (I don't mean increasing the tempo within a single performance). The "newer" pattern seems to come more naturally if you're playing Tusk faster, & that's what the band did from the beginning off the Tusk tour to the end of the Mirage tour.
The "newer" pattern seems to come more naturally if you're playing Tusk faster, & that's what the band did from the beginning off the Tusk tour to the end of the Mirage tour.
exactly. or..."easier"
i'm definitely no drummer..far from it. but when i tap it out, it seems pretty hard to do the " the two eighths" first, then the 16ths second. actually, on the live versions, it almost sounds like 5 beats + 1.
i prefer the slower, methodical version on the studio..but i guess it would drag, live.
sharon-drop tusk?!!! 
i get what you're saying, but it's one of the "fun" songs that EVERYONE gets up and dances to. when i first became a hard-core fan, i really didn't think that people had even heard tusk. i mean, it's a pretty obscure song from an obscure album and was it even a single? idk. but EVERYONE knows it. it's my mother's favorite mac song, and i used to ask patients and it was their favorite as well. i would get that from people i didn't really espect. so i say they should keep it in 
btw. i want to thank everyone for their imput. this really has been bugging the shit out of me for weeks. friday, it was all-consuming. so much, in fact, that i texted marissa (likeawillow..while she was drunk, indeedy) and james to see if i was going crazy lol
I thought that Tusk was a top 10 single? Was is not released as the first single from the album?
I thought that Tusk was a top 10 single? Was is not released as the first single from the album?
probably shows you how much i know haha...
i honestly had NEVER heard it, until i bought the album in 2001.
I thought that Tusk was a top 10 single? Was is not released as the first single from the album?
probably shows you how much i know haha...
i honestly had NEVER heard it, until i bought the album in 2001.
I wasn't sure either so I wikipedia'd it:
"Tusk" is a song by Fleetwood Mac from the 1979 double LP of the same name. The song reached #8 on the U.S. charts, #6 in the U.K. and #3 in Australia and Canada.
I guess that off the back of Rumours even the oddity that was Tusk can be a hit single.
I got into FM mostly through The Dance (a bit) and then Rumours so I'd sort of got the impression it was at least a crowd pleaser from The Dance, but I didn't realise how much of a crowd pleaser until I got to see Lindsey on the GOS. It shocked my just how much people loved it, even though it was early in the set it had people up.
I don't think Mick can play the record version of the toms. I CAN, and I'm not a drummer. In high school pep band, I would lay my trumpet down, and hop behind the kit, and play it, note for note(as far as I was concerned). I learned to play drums(sort of) trying to copy Tusk. The only way, for me at least, to duplicate the sounds of the record Tusk, is to use this cross arm technique(again, I'm not really a drummer). It requires three toms(duh)...hit floor tom with right stick....hit hi tom with left stick.....hit floor tom with right stick(here's where the cross comes in....>>>)......hit mid tom with left stick.....cross over and hit hi tom with right stick......hit mid tom with left stick......then hit floor tom with right stick. Lather, rinse, repeat. Sounds just like the record to me!
And the Tusk story goes back to Mick and Lindsey, jamming onstage, before the lights came up. That's where the riff started.
Btw, I greatly prefer the album version, to the live.
I don't think Mick can play the record version of the toms. I CAN, and I'm not a drummer. In high school pep band, I would lay my trumpet down, and hop behind the kit, and play it, note for note(as far as I was concerned). I learned to play drums(sort of) trying to copy Tusk. The only way, for me at least, to duplicate the sounds of the record Tusk, is to use this cross arm technique(again, I'm not really a drummer). It requires three toms(duh)...hit floor tom with right stick....hit hi tom with left stick.....hit floor tom with right stick(here's where the cross comes in....>>>)......hit mid tom with left stick.....cross over and hit hi tom with right stick......hit mid tom with left stick......then hit floor tom with right stick. Lather, rinse, repeat. Sounds just like the record to me!
That's interesting! I don't have the slightest clue about playing drums, so thank you for that, dave! I wish you could record that part for us & upload it.
And the Tusk story goes back to Mick and Lindsey, jamming onstage, before the lights came up. That's where the riff started.
Yep, that's where the guitar riff started, but not the drum. I think you can hear it at the beginning of the Las Vegas 8.25.77 tape before Say You Love Me.
Btw, I greatly prefer the album version, to the live.
The album track is very special. It really was enormously cool to everyone at the time -- not just Macheads but everyone. And as a fun reminder: the Rolling Stone critics voted it the Best Single of 1979.
Another thing that made it cool & widely recognized was that the Trojan marching band has been playing it at USC games for the past thirty years. Millions of football fans know it. It's undoubtedly the most popular college football team "song" of the last quarter-century.
That's interesting! I don't have the slightest clue about playing drums, so thank you for that, dave! I wish you could record that part for us & upload it.
Me too. ANY time I sit down behind a kit, I always play Tusk!!! Even if I had a way of recording it now, I've not got the right toms. I've got a 1966 Ludwig(blue sparkle) kit, with two toms. I also have a third Premier tom, that a friend gave me, but it's too small, for the right pitch. It's like a 9", which is way too small for the Tusk sound. My drummer has a BIG old Rogers kit, in our practice place. HUGE toms...they sound like Tusk!
Yep, that's where the guitar riff started, but not the drum. I think you can hear it at the beginning of the Las Vegas 8.25.77 tape before Say You Love Me.
I was thinking I read otherwise, in Mick's book......I just started reading it again, for like the 10th time, a couple of days ago.
The album track is very special. It really was enormously cool to everyone at the time -- not just Macheads but everyone. And as a fun reminder: the Rolling Stone critics voted it the Best Single of 1979.
Tusk trivia - On the deluxe DVD set of Boogie Nights, Tusk is in the deleted scenes. I think almost the whole song.
Another thing that made it cool & widely recognized was that the Trojan marching band has been playing it at USC games for the past thirty years. Millions of football fans know it. It's undoubtedly the most popular college football team "song" of the last quarter-century.
What else are you going to have a bunch of band dorks play??